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October 16, 2006

Comments

coreydbarbarian

thanks for your response, fcc. did you agree with any points made within the film? in particular, i am curious how you (and mike) view the allegations against the federal reserve.

thanks again.

Patrick


http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/stories/MYSA.050308.01RB_rel-creationismpanel.2d60551.html

"Sonneland said it seems that intelligent design might make it into books at some point.

Brown agreed. She said she's worried that students in the United States eventually will be centuries behind their counterparts around the world.

Results from a test that analyzes math and science skills of students in 30 developed countries showed American students scored in the lower tier.

One reason for the low ranks, the report said, was that some of their instructors didn't take science seriously."

We are 30th and will be lower if ID is taught in the clasroom. How is that for scientific analysis?

coreydbarbarian

nice link, patrick!
i often wonder how creationists might react if they actually understood basic science. their current assault on evolutionary theory is rather short-sighted; if they somehow "vanquished" that particular theory, they still would have to take on inumerable theories that deny creationists a literal interpretation of genesis. it just goes to show ya, these people are only following orders, not thinking for themselves.

one example: because einstein introduced the theory of relativity, science has learned to calculate the age of specific stars, and even the entire universe. using cosmology, and excluding all earth-based science (fossils, geological, biology, etc.), we can easily determine the earth was around LONG BEFORE creationists would like to claim.

Mike

Interesting Patrick. We are not teaching ID yet we are falling behind and now rank 30th. Maybe teaching the entire theory correctly would be a start? There is this idea that you must believe evolution OR ID but not both. It is such a ridiculous argument. Something to really think about.

My apologies for Corey. He has demonstrated why the ID/evolution debate is so heated. We still have many who believe the ID movement is about teaching a literal Genesis or some other form of religious education. If we could ever have honest deliberations and an honest analysis of the facts; I feel certain a real consensus would occur. The center of the ID movement is right here is Seattle and their scientific approach is as solid and their personal well qualified.

http://www.discovery.org/

Following up on what FCC shared. If we can search for aliens and call it science, ID hardly seems to be a stretch.

FCC provided a brief synopsis of the film that wasn’t challenged by Corey so I deem it is accurate. What claims does it make regarding the World Bank coreyd?

fcc

The only points of the film I agreed with are that it is good to ask questions. It is also good to accept answers when they are given. The 9/11 conspiracies have been proven false time and time again but we have those who most continue the conspiracies.

Mike actually the claim is that the Federal Reserve and the CFR, controls our dollars the coming One World Government. Also, they will eventual put the mark of the beast on the palm of all its pawns.
Some of that may well be true (about the power) but when a faceless whistleblower will not even properly credit a conspiracy documentary that jumps on its horse and runs in three different directions it is difficult to take it seriously. The only thing it left out was the unleashing the AIDS virus on the black community.

______________________________________________________

So our schools are now 30th? It wasn't that long ago that we were 23rd. I guess throwing more money at the problem din't solve it after all. When will we realize the collapse of the family is at the very foundation of the educational system breakdown?

coreydbarbarian

mike, here is what i think about the film zeitgeist: i believe the purpose of the film is simply to make the viewer question EVERYTHING they've ever taken as gospel. judging from the 3 areas that the film draws attention to (religion, 9/11, and the federal reserve), i think maybe the director was hoping to affect the conservative-minded.

it seems that fcc is more familiar with the film than i am, though. i just saw it for the first time last week.

if a person was prone to believing EVERYTHING they were told, this film could be dangerous. similarly, if that person was prone to believing conspiracy theories, this film would be a wet dream.

for the open-minded, this was a fascinating film. and i'm not 100% certain that every point has actually been refuted, even with regard to 9/11.

now, i'm gonna get back to spending mother's day with my dearsweet mom.
:)

Mike

The director was hoping to impact the conservative minded? Conservatives are not the ones who tend to believe 9-11 conspiracies so I think you are off that point. Conservatives also tend to be less conspiracy minded wjhen it comes to religion as indicated by the BHO type of pastors. The Federal reserve atempting to bring about a one world government is a toss up. This is the kind of thinking that tends to come out of the extreme far left in the US. These guys are not asking questions, they spread panic and fear and refuse to listen to reason. Which is why this is aan internet premiere!:)

FCC as my father use to say, when you point the finger at others you have three more pointing back at yourself. It is much easier to blame the schools and teachers and even lack of money for those who get a poor education rather than for parents to look in the mirror. A good education is possible any where if it is truly desired.

Patrick

We are 30th and sinking for other reasons. We are teaching too many children to be dependent on the government rather than being independent and provide for themselves. Time to turn the schools over to the free market and dump the Fdderal and State ineptness.

fcc

Mike Conservative is used a term to deride the opposition. It really has nothing to do with what they REALLY believe.

Patrick I agree to a certain extent. It is time to turn the schools over to the states and the free-market. There must still remain guidelines that should be met to insure children are receiving the proper education and not coming out not knowing how to read. Of course some come out in that condition anyhow.

I must admit, I am impressed how the DNC is now rallying around BHO (LOL). Once again, the big winner last night......John McCain.

Uncle Earl

I thought you fellas might enjoy this

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher
taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs.
The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be
the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking
how she was doing in school.
Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and
let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was
taking a very difficult course load and was constantly Studying, which
left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She
didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many
college friends because she spent all her time studying.
Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Audrey doing?"
She replied, "Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy
classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so
popular on campus, college for her is a blast. She's always invited to
all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes
because she's too hung over."
Her father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office
and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who
only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly
that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."
The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired
back, "That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades!
I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done
next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail
off !"
The father slowly smiled , winked and said gently,
"Welcome to the Republican Party."

coreydbarbarian

mike, i think maybe you've forgotten all the militias that sprang up during clinton's 2 terms. not exactly liberals.
i have only lived in two states, indiana and texas, and both are "red states". my experiences have almost always been with conservatives.
what i wanted to convey was the mindset of the director, not an indictment of conservatives. your knee-jerk defensive posturing is unnecessary.
for every dennis kucinich, there's a ron paul, right?

fcc, keep on blabbering, buddy.

Mike

Corey no need to be so defensive or angry. I only speak in generalities throughout the nation. Hey, get around more is all I can recommend. FCC is actually correct. Conservative, Liberal and neo are terms to insult the opposition. Where have you been?

Uncle Earl, cute, very cute but over simplifies the position of the DNC. But I do see the point considering what we have running. I see that now BHO has taken the position of Huck and thrown a cross behind him in his latest campaign poster. Hypocrisy? Well sure, politics is all about hypocrisy. My real concern is for his "CHANGE" promise. By change does he mean higher inflation, market crashes and the advent of a new depression? He has been unclear.

And again all this blabbering about Hillary as the VP. Forget it! Michelle will now allow it and HRC is busy vilifying BHO so that he will drop the nomination. Walla! in 4 years she is the DNC nominee. Its not like she cares about our party all of a sudden. Expect a HRC bomb on BHO at the convention. She has got some serious dirt on teflon man.

after i suggested the film zeitgeist's target audience was conservative, fcc said: "..Conservative is used a term to deride the opposition. It really has nothing to do with what they REALLY believe."

and mike adds: "Conservative, Liberal and neo are terms to insult the opposition."

-- guys, get real. labels CAN be used to insult, but you two are speaking in absolute terms, as if these labels were ALWAYS used in derogatory fashion. that's dumb. and you. know. it.

coreydbarbarian

after i suggested the film zeitgeist's target audience was conservative, fcc said: "..Conservative is used a term to deride the opposition. It really has nothing to do with what they REALLY believe."

and mike adds: "Conservative, Liberal and neo are terms to insult the opposition."

-- guys, get real. labels CAN be used to insult, but you two are speaking in absolute terms, as if these labels were ALWAYS used in derogatory fashion. that's dumb. and you. know. it.

fcc

LOL, I saw the new add Mike. Obama, the man who slammed Huck for a cabinet cross in the background now has a cross in his add. Beautiful! Too bad his church has no clue what that cross supposedly stands for. He also believes we have 57 states. Do you think he is considering invasion of some current Islamic states to get us to that number? I think the man is getting a little paranoid considering his quick response to the Bush speech in Israel. Hang in there Hill!

Corey, did anyone claim always or absolute? Only you from what I can read. You admitted that they can therefore it is possible. Words change definitions over the years. Liberal is a great example. Hey, how about marriage? Now there is a word being redefined in studious fashion. Our own Bev redefined the 10Cs to include no God! I think there is no limit to the examples that could be provided.

coreydbarbarian

of course, the egyptians had their own version of the 10 c's, didn't they?
possibly pre-dating the hebrew's 10 c's?
i betcha their version didn't mention god, either.

also, re: 57 states
-- does anybody know how many territories the u.s. has? like guam, puerto rico, virgin islands, etc? is it 50 states + 7 territories, or what?

Patrick

LET’s OFFEND EVERYONE
Q. What's the Cuban National Anthem?
A. Row, Row, Row Your Boat

Q. Where does an Irish family go on vacation?
A. A different bar

Q. What do you call it when an Italian has one arm shorter than the other?
A. A speech impediment

Q. What does it mean when the Post Office's flag is flying at half-mast?
A. They're hiring

Q. Why aren't there any Puerto Ricans on Star Trek?
A. Because they're not going to work in the future either.

Q. What's the difference between a southern zoo and a northern zoo?
A. The southern zoo has a description of the animal on the front of the cage along with a recipe.

Q. What's the difference between a northern fairytale and a southern fairytale???
A. A northern fairytale begins, 'Once upon a time...' and a southern fairytale begins, 'Y'all ain't gonna believe this s_ _ _!

Q. Why doesn't Mexico have an Olympic team?
A. Because all the Mexicans who can run, jump or swim are already in the United States .

fcc

Corey, the Egyptians had their own 10Cs? So did they reference their 10,000 Gods or did each god have their own? In any case, your defense of Bev as your buddy is noble but expectedly your argument is weak. I repeatedly shot down Bev on this issue time after time and as always she remains confused. Maybe she should have referred to the 6Cs.

Also, territories are not states. Nice try. Try applying the same standards to BHO as you would Bush :). I do believe there are 57 Islamic states throughout the world. Could that be it? Its rough without those teleprompters eh?

Patrick,

LOL, its a good thing you remain anonymous.

coreydbarbarian

you so funny.

check this site out, fcc. it was the first hit on a google search of "egypt" and "10 commandments".

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10cl.htm

obviously, they DID reference god, so I WAS WRONG about that.
but the link does point to the thing i was trying to allude to; the list was quite possibly influenced by the egyptian religious law, written some 300 years earlier. if that is so, then the hebrews 10 c's is a modified list, not unlike bev's further revisions.

what always got me, fcc, was how you got so caught up in someone's specific interpretation of the 10 c's in the 1st place. we all take the knowledge we find and adapt it to our personal situation.

on barack and the 57 states, it was a funny moment, and i laughed. he was OBVIOUSLY tired, too. his eyelids weren't quite as googly as usual, ya know?

but do you suppose his brain was counting all the different caucuses and primaries, which include both states AND territories, and his mouth flubbed it all up? i'm just sayin', there's a world of difference between misspeaking and being misinformed.

but it was a fun moment.

fcc

Yes, a fun moment indeed. But, if it had been Bush, I believe you and the BDS would have Quailed him. Ya know? Its the same double standard from Wright to his cross we see on a regular basis. The flubbed remark is really secondary. My personal favorite has been HRC under sniper fire or “If you don’t vote for Obama you are racist.

The Hebrews claim the commandments came directly from God so once again you fail to justify Bev. I never questioned her right to redefine anything she likes to fit her worldview. I only point out the queerness of it all. How can you follow the first 4Cs when you don't even believe in the God? The Egyptians have nothing to do with the issue. Yes, most of us take information and make it fit our situation. Its called situational ethics or moral relativism. Most of the time it tends to have some sort of logic. Predictably, Bev never could work out the dilemma. Nothing personal, I rather liked to read her ramblings. They were quite entertaining.

Mike

Bev and the 10Cs again? I miss our dear resident curmudgeon. Bev was christian FCC but THEN she reverted to theism, to Islam for a time and consequently to Red Word if I recall correctly. I may have missed a step. The progression may be a little shaky. Bev is not that difficult to understand. If you supported the DNC and hated the very fact Bush and Christian leaders were even alive, she would befriend you and follow your doctrine. Everything else was irrelevant. I recall fondly the times she sat at the feet of derf and sighed his consummate use of the english language. I also recall her attempts to revise the historical record of soldiers mistreatment on their return from nam. What a mess. She seemed quite sad and lonely. I hope she is doing well.

It could be her and Masood are campaigning to bring us 7 more Islamic states. That could help Obama if we allow them to vote this cycle.

coreydbarbarian

personally, i always thought it was derf's ability to provoke deep thinking and analysis that made him praiseworthy.

Mike

Corey it seems your threshold for praise is quite low. Maybe you know derf better than you let on but a facelsss blogger wothy of praise? Its you call.

FCC something regarding Obama propmted me to relate this thought. Thomas Paine was never an atheist but he is something of the darling for modern atheists. CSM on one occasion used Tom as his atheist hero from the founding fathers. I let it go then but qthesit often will jump on this false assumption and use Paine to supoort their arguments that America was founded as a secular nation. Roosevelt in a biography of another statemen (while stll quite young) even referred to him as a "filthy little atheist". He was falsely accused as an atheist by political enemies and the tag stuck although untrue.
Paine actually used Christian dogma in his argument for revolt and that should shoot down the false hero of the secularist/atheist. Tells you everything you need to know about the general population. I believe Obama is fighting some of those same demons. Politics hasn't changed much.

fcc

Mike I can't agree that BHO is being mischaracterized by the informed. I'm sure there are pockets of those who believe the guy is a Muslim but for the most part his mouth has been the source of his problems. It seems every time he speaks he must go back and clarify his statements. So much for the great communicator. One day Iran is a threat the nest day it is not, he believes speaking to terrorist nations will heal hatred that has evolved over the last 1000 years and he has obvious disdain for the blue collar folks and for America. You are known by the company you keep and the words you say when you believe the tape is not rolling.

His hypocrisy is amazing as well. Michelle is off limits but Bill is not? If he didn't send her out to campaign for him I might by in to this argument. It’s much like Bill and his same hypocrisy with Chelsea.

Mike

Sure BHO is misrepresented. That means the good and the bad. My party (well part of it for now) characterizes him as hope, change and the great orator of a new generation. The GOP will paint him as a terrorist sympathizer, clueless and another step toward socialist order. McCain is already facing the same misrepresentation and finding my party is much better with the smear than the GOP. Its part of politics and lies, bait'n switch is part of the process. Hill must be in total shock. I guess she wasn't the darling of the party as so many believed.

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